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What's with these people selling "Brazilian Rosewood" on ebay with no reserve. Surly this is a scam right?

ebay link

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I don't know that much about where any of these people get their wood,(and there are quite a few) but they are continually getting $250.00 to $350.00 a set. I've seen them go way higher. I don't know the legalities of their items, but there are people here on the forum that do. I just know they put up new sets each and every week, and sell them all.BlueSpirit38653.173599537

They used to sell boards too, and I thought about buying some, until I asked if they have the proper paperwork and got no response... I doubt it's legal to import the stuff.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

I have REALLY REALLY resisted buying that stuff - Some of it is over the top beautiful, but like Don said, Its probably no legal.

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Lance@LuthiersForum.com

     Most of this stuff is flat and rift sawn off old stumps. You can bet that it will crack and it isn't luthier grade. Remember that good east indian is better than bad brazilian
john hall

I agree with all of you guys, of course $250-350 is just stupid to think that the stuff isn't legal. I would believe that it isn't legal stuff. I can also see them, posting picks of Braz and sending something else in the shipment.

I'm not going to bite.

John, you seem to have a fair mount of stuff on ebay there, hope it's good for you.

One day soon, I am planing on buying a heating blanket from you, some where around Christmas time.

Cheers all.

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"There's really no wrong way, as long as the results are what's desired." Charles Fox

"We have to constantly remind ourselves what we're doing....No Luthier is putting a man on the moon!" Harry Fleishman

"Generosity is always different in the eye of the person who didn't receive anything, but who wanted some." Waddy Thomson

Another BRW seller on eBay goes by cincero. I emailed him and he indicated that he does have CITES documentation. I have not purchased any of his BRW but I have purchased some other exotics from him and had no problems.

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Don Atwood
Arlington, VA

[QUOTE=tippie53] Most of this stuff is flat and rift sawn off old stumps. You can bet that it will crack and it isn't luthier grade. Remember that good east indian is better than bad brazilian
john hall
[/QUOTE]

Yes, but some of it is darned beautiful... like this set for example.
I think it's gorgeous.
Also, don't forget that tone is subjective, and some people would prefer the sound of bad BRW over Master grade EIRW any day. Others prefer the EI.
Personally, I agree with you for the most part. A couple bottles of CA to flood all the hairline cracks might be a good investment.

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"I want to know what kind of pickups Vince Gill uses in his Tele, because if I had those, as good of a player as I am, I'm sure I could make it sound like that.
Only badly."

I have bought a couple of sets for personal use from ebay id: brazilianrosewood. One set was absoutly beautiful but the other set not so good. Lots of cracks and it warped pretty badly once I stored it. Have it flattened out pretty good but cracks formed. Not sure if I want to waste the time with it. The stuff is usually pretty thick so lots of room to work with. I guess overall I had good experience.

   When it comes down to it ou gotta pay for your education, you either pay an instructor or learn from your mistakes.
    Cheap BRW is just that. You take a big risk and if it isn't well quartered you will have crack issues. If not while you are building I can tell you it will happen down the road.
    There is no such thing as cheap BRW. Yes you may get lucky once in a while but if you don't have a reliable supplier you will get burned sooner or later.
Highly figured BRW is often rift or face cut , that is why you have figure. This is the stuff that will cause problems. CA may help in the short term but it isn't the stuff I would use. I learned a long time ago.
YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR.
   For me a cheap set is going to cost me $700. Quality is allways the cheapest in the long run.
john hall

Nicely said, John.

Once again a very misunderstood subject and many uninformed answers. Though most of the sets you are seeing on ebay probably don't come with a legal passport for legal re-exportation, most is truly pre-ban stock. Cincero for example (from my understanding) has a deposit of old timer from a large building he discovered here in Brazil. According to the Director of Floresta (IBAMA) who I have spoken to on numberous occasions has told me that in fact "Cincero" did apply for exportation permission. Whether it was approved or not I can't say for sure because I was told this back in June of this year. The results of his granted permission were still pending at that time. But, I understood that the building was more than 125 years old according the the IBAMA inspector who was working on "Cinceros" application. I am inclined to believe his application has been approved. As for "Baskwoods"..my sources have told me that his inventory is also "Pre Ban". He is out of Belo Horizonte, Brazil and has been buying BRW for more than 20 years and has an enormous amount of inventory. And as for it being cut from old stumps...this just simply isn't the case where these two sellers are concerned. However, many of the sets are flat and rift sawn because that's the only way they cut wood in Brazil. They know little or nothing about quarter sawing for a particular use. All the logs have been and still are cut in slabs. So, to get quarter sawn sets you just simply have to get the right slab from the tree. Then you can prepare the outer part of the slab into quarter sawn stock. However, you will almost always have some run out due to the smaller size of the trees. But, at the market value of BRW today..they surely aren't going to just toss away the other slabs that are mainly flat sawn.
Rod...just so you know, they are not running a scam. If you buy a set listed as BRW, you can rest assured that is what you will receive. If you look at the feedback on these guys..that should be a good indication that the buyers are getting what they paid for. The moral issues of the matter are for you as an individual to decide. Many simply refuse to buy it because they think they are contributing to the demise of the species or going to be arrested for receiving it. The truth of the matter is that the person shipping it is the one any legal issues would fall on if that were the case. However, there are fine lines and grey areas regarding this issue. Even IBAMA couldn't answer some of the questions I posed to them regarding BRW. However, I do know for a fact that once a wood has been produced into a product...such as furniture, guitars etc...it is a completely different set of rules. I can buy an old antique dining table made from BRW and ship it to you in the US without any problems. Then you could saw it up for guitar wood or use it in your grill to cook hot dogs on the 4th of July if you want. All without any threat of legal issues. Giannini guitars still produces hundreds of BRW guitars each month here in Sao Paulo. They ship them around the world daily. So, those who choose not to buy because of moral or ethical issues regarding the species aren't going to stop or slow the use of this wood. It's inevitable. Thank god there are others who have invested in reforestation of this beautiful wood. And the reforested trees will be allowed to be cut and sold internationally as well. They do not fall under the CITES guidelines because they are being planted for that purpose and are not diminishing the old growth supplies. There are many in the United States who sell BRW claiming it to be Pre-Ban and legal. Most say this was stock they bought 20 years ago. And they are taken at their word. The truth is that most of it is not legal either. I would venture to say there are only a handful of people who truly have pre-ban stock that was shipped into the country before 1992. But, no one questions their paperwork or asks for documentation there. Seems once it's in the country it's up for grabs and anything goes. You tell me it's pre-ban and I'll buy it. The truth is..the only way to stop it is "A total ban on possession" just like the marijuana laws. You get caught with it..you go to jail.